Long day; back in the dorm. I did wind up having a latte this morning. I got it with an extra shot, and it was better than yesterday's. Still not great. Today was two sessions, both led by Ed Morante. The day's topic was assessment.
The whole day was about placement assessments. People talked about they way they did things at their colleges, and some of them are pretty messed up. One college had optional placement testing, another had some weird test that was essentially an eighth grade test. The tesol people started in, and some of them argued for EAP type classes while others argued for all EAP students to go into developmental, and the whole thing kinda gave me a headache.
I had fake Moe's again for lunch, and it was again really good. Even the tortilla chips were good. The guy put a toothpick in my burrito after he was done making it, and he said "this is to let the cashier know that it's vegetarian. It's cheaper that way." And I remember having a toothpick in my burrito yesterday, too, so I guess they don't charge you the same price for a steak enchilada or whatever. My mistake.
I had lunch with the facilitator, Ed, and a guy who lives in WV, but teaches in MD. Light talk, but Ed said he had been working with Brazosport College, which was one of the colleges I looked at in my dissertation, and we talked about their baccalaureate program. FWIW, Brazosport, is a complementary institution, according to my typology, and Edison in a competing one.
In the afternoon, we talked a lot of numbers: standard deviation, SEM, etc. I kept thinking about the stuff we had talked about in the morning and yesterday afternoon. That we should get to our students before they take the placement exam to impress upon them the importance of the exam and that we should look at other things when making placement decisions. The way Ed was talking, he was even saying things like we should ask how many hours per week they work, how they get to school, when did they last attend a class, etc. It seems pretty invasive, but it could also really work. Maybe you do all of that and tell them "you placed here, but based on what I'm seeing, I'd say you're better off there instead." I don't think that would work with our levels - certainly not in a downward fashion, but maybe in an upward one? Like if someone tests into 9013, but has all these variables going for them, maybe they take 24 with additional supports? Maybe they have that option?
After class, Hunter and Barbara gave a brief, optional presentation on ASU. I stuck around, as did five others. I figured it couldn't hurt to be noticed, and it turned out to be an interesting conversation. I went over to the Plant, had some dinner (slice of pizza, salad, and diet coke), and here I am. There's an optional tour of the library at 7, but I'm undecided as to whether or not I'll go. The way Kellogg is set up there are mandatory things, optional things, and optional (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) things, which doesn't sound too optional to me. The library tour is a purely optional one, so I think I'm good either way.
Class photo was today. They took three shots. We'll see.
Trivial Pursuit is at 8. I'll either nap or tour the library - maybe read. Up for tomorrow:
9 - 11:30 / Assessment and placement, con't
1 / Research workshop (Optional but HIGHLY RECOMMENDED)
I like the idea of taking students' outside lives into account in placement. Many of our students are parents and full-time workers. There just isn't enough time in the day for everything, and they tend to grossly underestimate how much time is needed when registering for a class. I also agree that placing a student lower would cause problems, but perhaps, we could limit their credit hours and/or courses available (like you don't take two writing intensive courses at once if you don't have the time...) based on outside experiences? And, how would we give any more support if placed higher? Make lab hours mandatory if placed above testing level?
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't think I would have agreed with the outisde lives thing until now, but I'm sort of sold on it. I don't know how it would work, per se, but I'd imagine it's doable. I'd feel weird telling people that they have to do extra because they're single moms or don't have cars or whatever, but that's the reality of it.
ReplyDeleteI really like the trade-off thing - e.g. "we recommend this, but if you want to take something more or higher, we'll need you to commit to x hours of lab work per week." If they balk at that, then their argument that they'll have the time to do everything required sort of evaporates.
And the extra supports shouldn't just be lab based, though that's probably the most valuable. I'm not saying we need to provide child care or transportation, but we probably should have someone available to talk to the students about those topics.
The taking a student's whole situation into account meshes with the idea of "meeting students where they are" and assisting them in that educational journey from wherever they may be. Students are all so radically different in so many aspects. To quantify them on a linear continuum just doesn't give us a true picture.
ReplyDeleteWhat much of this is going to come down to is what we are willing to do and what we have the resources to do. Many more ideal scenarios of how to assist students in becoming successful will occur to us, but I think it is important to continually revisit these and not dismiss them with the argument of process (the that's the way it is argument).
If we truly examine the issue of informed choice, we also need to examine some of what we allow in the name of student choice. A student with a mathematics disability who fails spring but retakes MAT 9024 in summer A might be one example.
Two unrelated items: Joseph, is Moe's really that authentic? (authentic comida rapida mexicana?)
Also, I am noticing that you are posting items before 5:00 a.m. What gives? I thought beginning conference activities so early was prohibited by the Geneva Convention.
@Drew: Ha, well, I think the Blogger software is set for west coast time - the earliest I've ever posted was around 7AM. And: Moe's is authentic Mission style (i.e. .San Francisco). It's really good, but it's not Mexican - it's Californian.
ReplyDeleteMy next post, in a minute, will talk more about assessment and placement, sort of as it pertains to the rest of your comment.
Ahhh West Coast... so that whole greet you at the door thing that unnerves me so much is a West Coast thing then too?!? It runs so contrary to my Northeastern sensibilities.
ReplyDelete